Tuesday, May 13, 2008

The Results are in...

Toffler 3354- winner
Monica 2990- winner
Hameedudin 2905- winner

Rudolph 2851
Robinson 2830
Jackson 2571
Goldman 2126
Rose 1311

268 comments:

1 – 200 of 268   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Is this a joke?

Anonymous said...

Oh veh! What is Elie going to do now.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Rabbi P. and Yitz for running such a dirty campaign. Looks like people had enough of the unfair labels. Toffler is not anti-Orthodox. But look at what you made the community think.

Anonymous said...

Honis' first item on her agneda (in 4 years she has yet to have one) is to build a bubble around the Northwest and drop zyclone B

How anyone can vote for that piece of shit is beyond me. The ultra liberal assholes in this town are truly idiots.

Anonymous said...

Haven't you learned anything from this election? Arrogance will get you nowhere. The Orthodox community needs to build bridges with others, not call them names and worse. Take your foul mouth somewhere else. It's time to heal not hurt.

Reginald said...

what a lovely, lovely lesson to Rabbi P. and his cronies. a word to haneedudin: don't even think of voting to reelect Katz as the mayor. You don't owe him and his mentor Rabbi P. anything. In fact, theirs is the sort of stupidity and cynical opportunism that ought to be made an example of. if they call you, just say "no comprende englaise."

Anonymous said...

Reginald, you are 100% correct. Hameedudin owes Rabbi P. and his agenda absolutely nothing. Team Teaneck cyncially ran a "diverse" ticket and they got stung with precisely what they did not want. Elie, Yitz and Rabbi P. should be ashamed.

Anonymous said...

Just curious abt the numbers... How many registered voters are there in teaneck?

Fred said...

this is sooo cool. Now, I am not an orthodox Jew -- in fact, I am not a Jew at all -- but there seems to me a certain irony in this. i understand that Hameedudin was put on the ticket by the orthodox contingent to make voting for them and particularly for that moron Rudolph more palatable to the non Jews as part of a "rainbow package," if you will. And now Rudolph is out and Hameedudin is in! Who would have thunk it? what will they do now?

Anonymous said...

I am truly offended and saddened by your comments. Now more than ever it is time for this community - and yes, we are ONE community - to raise the level of discourse. I want feel proud that I have chosen to make Teaneck my home. Community requires trust, open communication, respect for differences, a willingness to listen, an open mind and a common goal. Perhaps we can begin by making open and civil discourse our first goal.

Anonymous said...

Teaneck registerd voters, according to Wikipedia -

As of April 1, 2006, out of a 2004 Census estimated population of 39,853, there were 23,378 registered voters (58.7% of the population, vs. 55.4% in all of Bergen County). Of registered voters, 7,889 (33.7% vs. 20.7% countywide) were registered as Democrats, 1,704 (7.3% vs. 19.2% countywide) were registered as Republicans and 13,774 (58.9% vs. 60.1% countywide) were registered as Undeclared. There were 11 voters registered to other parties.

Fred said...

you are saddened by MY comments? why?

Anonymous said...

Fred,
No, I was referring to anonymous' comment at 9:53.

Harold said...

Fred: Your analysis is right on the money. Rabbi P. has spent years trying to exert Orthodox influence over the town. He used Stern and Katz as his foot soldiers and they acted really cynically in this election. They were in way over their heads though. Good people all around so right through it.

Anonymous said...

OMG!

this town is going down the drain with a racist on the council

Anonymous said...

Who would that be? Seriously I don't know who you think is racist?

Joe said...

Now you see how the JV&O polluted this election. It made the Orthodox community believe anybody against Team Teaneck was a racist or anti-Orthodox. When will the rabbis and community leaders disclaim any association with the JV&O.

Bertram said...

In the same vein: quite a few of my friends cringed at that picture of Rabbi P. in one of the papers embracing Hameedudin. Those who know Rabbi P and his views knew that this was rank opportunism -- not to say more. Rabbi P., you see, is not known for his enlightened views. And yet, these same friends viewed the photo as a price that had to be paid to get the orthodox guys in. well, as the Reverend Wright, quoting a certain civil rights leader, said: THE CHICKKKENS . . . HAVE COME HOME . . . TO ROOST! and their name is HAMEEDUDIN!!!

Anonymous said...

Who would that be? Seriously I don't know who you think is racist?

Ill give u a hint

female
initials mh
hates jews

figure it out yet?

Reginald said...

Jews are not a race

Allen said...

Don't only blame Rabbi P. Some of the other rabbis in town also pushed hard for us to follow the ideas in the JV&O. Rabbi R. was right there with Rabbi P.

anonymous said...

Rabbi R? Is he the rabbi of that temple on Queen Anne that's looking to expand? well, I guess the landscape has changed for him with this election.

Allen said...

Yes. He made repeated requests to all of our shul to get out the vote and it is the second biggest shul in Teaneck. He told us this election was "vital" to the shul.

Anonymous said...

Jews are not a race

you are not a human, you're a moron

no criticism of her remark, huh?

suppose a Jew had said "dont send me to the ghetto with a bunch of blacks"?

A-HOLE!

anonymous said...

this "get out and vote" stuff is such a sham. Everyone understands and takes it to mean: "Get out and vote for Elie Katz and his cabal," but since they don't say the actual words, they dont run afoul of the nonprofit laws. Someone should really take a look at these rabbis who very much use their pulpit to promote specific candidates and see if their congregations should continue to have nonprofif status. maybe people should start coming to services with tape recorders.

Anonymous said...

Cut out the racism. I agree with the sentiment that the JV&O caused the dirty politics in this election and I am really angry that the Rabbis didn't put a stop to it. It's against Jewish law to be racist and anyone who is should not be listened to in the community. Thanks Rabbi P., Rabbi R. and whoever else joined in your effort to give our community a bad name.

anonymous said...

oh, I am quite critical of her remark. It wasn't very sensitive, although I don't think anyone in their right mind takes it literally. I am simply making a point that calling her a racist is incorrect, since Jews are not a race. No need to resort to name calling.

Anonymous said...

Unless you plan to put your house on the market in the morning, why don't you give some thought to how you can make things better rather than continuing with the nastiness and name calling.

Harold said...

It was reported that Rabbi P. gave a sermon this week at his shul telling people to vote for Rudolph. Was it worth it? Now, there is a lot of suspicion. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

i'm not angry, i'm incredibly disappointed that people in teaneck would elect a loser like monica. i thought this town was liberal; now i see how wrong i was!

Anonymous said...

Can we just stop the hateful rhetoric now??? Please??? I am proud that Hameeduddin won. Bless him and the council to do good for Teaneck despite all the nastiness...

Anonymous said...

Monica would have lost if Team Teaneck hadn't run such a dirty campaign and emboldened Teaneck United. Just look at the blog entries from yesterday and today how Teaneck United was a big loser. Well, two of the three winners were from Teaneck United. Who was the big loser? Elie, Yitz, Rabbi P. and Rabbi R.

Anonymous said...

anyone know harris' address?

i want to send her my congratulations (along with a picture of Hitler)

Swiggle said...

Jews are not a race

According to Wikipedia The term race refers to the concept of dividing people into populations or groups on the basis of various sets of characteristics.[1] The most widely used human racial categories are based on visible traits (especially skin color, cranial or facial features and hair texture), and self-identification.[1][2]

Since most Jews have one or more of those characteristics...not to mention an overwhelming genetic similarity your argument seems to fall apart.

You should feel free to say it again (with no reason behind your thought process) though.

anonymous said...

i am an orthodox jew and I voted for Katz et al in the prior election. But I have been disgusted at the way they have acted as shills for the real power in this town -- the few powerful rabbis whose bidding they do without question. I am not a fan of the slate that got elected this time around, but I would rather have them than Rabbi P's and R's poodles.

Anonymous said...

How dare you? The Harrises were mercilessly attacked in the last election. They suffered a lot from it. They are good people and good Jews. Don't take out your frustrations on good people.

Anonymous said...

How dare you? The Harrises were mercilessly attacked in the last election. They suffered a lot from it. They are good people and good Jews. Don't take out your frustrations on good people.

how dare I?

some racist makes a horrible comment and refuses to apologize and u blame people who criticize her????

do u also blame blacks who criticize the KKK??

Allen said...

Anon 11:03. Unfortunatly, as much as it hurts me, you are probably correct. Elie, Yitz, Rabbi P. and Rabbi R. really were a disservice to the community in this election.

wes said...

Congratulations to Toffler, Honis, and Hameeduddin on their election victory.

I hope all of Teaneck's elected officials can work together for the good of the township.

Anonymous said...

Elie must be kicking himself for putting Hameedudin on Team Teaneck. Rudolph lost by only 50 votes. I wonder which members of B'nei Yeshurun wished they hadn't listened to their rabbi about how to vote.

anonymous said...

All of us at bnai yeshurun need to ask Rabbi P to explain exactly what happened. we did as we were told, and we end up with Hameedudin!!! this is just unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

Teaneck progress voted for the bottom 3. Interesting.

Anonymous said...

Bergen Record article:

Toffler wins seat on Teaneck council Tuesday, May 13, 2008 BY JOSEPH AXStaff Writer

TEANECK — Challenger Barbara Toffler surged to victory in Tuesday’s bitterly contested council election, finishing first in a field of eight, while Councilwoman Monica Honis and newcomer Mohammed Hameeduddin also captured four-year terms.

“We’re going to be okay,” Toffler said from home, where supporters gathered to celebrate. “I’m thrilled. I am delighted that truth won. Believe me, I will do everything to serve Teaneck, the town that I love and the town that I grew up in.”

The results were a split verdict, with the two major slates of three candidates each falling short of a sweep.

Toffler had run informally alongside Honis and Audra Jackson, who finished sixth. Hameeduddin was part of the “Team Teaneck” slate of candidates that included Councilman Elnatan Rudolph, who failed in his bid for a full term after two years on the council, and Robert Robinson.

Independent candidates Ned Goldman and Howard Rose – both Planning Board members – ended the night behind the two slates, which accused each other of dirty tactics and divisive campaigning.

Toffler received 3,356 votes, while Honis received 2,981 and Hameeduddin 2,890. Rudolph finished only 48 votes back at 2,852, with Robinson following closely behind with 2,841.

Jackson notched 2,572 ballots. Goldman received 2,129 votes and Rose – the only candidate to eschew significant fund-raising as a matter of principle – finished with 1,313. The results are unofficial until provisional ballots are counted and the county certifies the totals.

Toffler and Honis won most of the remaining 17 districts, which include the southern end of town and the Northeast. Their slate was endorsed by the Northeast Teaneck Block Presidents Association and the citizens group Teaneck United. The Team Teaneck slate polled extremely well in the four West Englewood Avenue districts.

Rose and Goldman emphasized their independence as the campaign drew to a close, mindful of the animosity that existed between supporters of the two slates.

Mayor Elie Katz stumped for Team Teaneck, drawing criticism from opponents who claimed he was overstepping his bounds. And complaints of political intimidation, negative advertising and identity politics plagued the race in its final weeks, convincing some onlookers in the culturally diverse town that serious damage was being done to inter-group relations.

But in a handful of conversations during the day, voters from various sectors of Teaneck said it was the typical list of concerns for suburban residents that had drawn them to the polls – high taxes, future development, the school system and, in one case, a months-long delay for a permit to construct a new porch.

“That’s part of elections,” said William Batten of the clashes between candidates, as he exited a polling place in the Northeast. “I don’t pay much attention to it.”

Toffler, an organizational psychologist and research professor who is a former Planning Board member, and Honis, who won her second term, had vowed to maintain Teaneck’s suburban way of life and use the Master Plan to guide future development.

Hameeduddin, a first-time candidate and an alternate Planning Board member, had promised to pursue development that complements the character of the town. He is the owner of a residential title agency.

Rudolph works for the Bergen County Improvement Authority, and Robinson is a deacon at Mount Olive Baptist Church in Hackensack.

Jackson, an assistant school principal, has been active in community issues in the town, while Goldman, a commercial real estate broker, has also held positions on the Redevelopment Agency, the Environmental Commission and the school board. Rose, the owner of Briar Rose Books on Cedar Lane, is also the vice chairman of the Financial Advisory Board and a former chairman of the Cedar Lane Special Improvement District.

E-mail: ax@northjersey.com

BL said...

I'm disappointed ( I voted for Howard , Ned and Barbara) and a little happy at the results. I think the Team got what it deserved, a surprise ending. I may support a lot of what they have in mind, but the offensiveness of their Poltical technique and the strange campaigns including the 2006 one bringing in Mr. Rudolph to begin with have pushed things too far & are truly embarrassing. They didn't want to own up to those illegal mailings? They have embarrassed me as a member of an Orthodox shul because they pitted us against them- they created a paranoia in the Jewish community that to me and most folks I've talked to really had little substance. We're going "What?" at being pushed to vote for the Team. Shul expansions? Huh? Why do they want to rule so badly?
But, now we have a situation that really feels dangerous. There's a lot of rancor here that I never felt before in town. In times like these the last thing any community needs is a continuation of the name-calling (hey, I'll try to quit) A big waste of precious energy. Remeber how Bill Clinton & the Republicans wasted the country's while our enemies were gearing up? Let's be smart. Let's try to move on and look for the best in each other, because when it's love your neighbor as yourself, that means as you forgive yourself for all those dark places and blemishes ands make excuses for your own behaviour, you gotta look at your fellow citizen and make their excuses for them, so you can look at each other and be OK. As much as I despised the low actions of the contagious politicking that both "parties" engaged in, (Howard and Ned excluded)it's really over tonight. Time to try to make it right

Anonymous said...

The rancor is largely Team Teaneck's fault. Elie, Rabbi P. and others need to apologize to all of Teaneck and to make it clear that they have misinformed the Orthodox community about the state of affairs. No one wants to harm the Orthodox community. They just want good people leading the town and they want laws to be upheld.

BL said...

Yeah, that's right of course, it's Boss Elie's "team" that started and was the worst purveyor of it. But i was a bit bewildered by Monica's strange, stupid, and insulting rant

Anonymous said...

I'm not happy that Monica is back in. Toffler will be interesting, but overall, I definitely think she'll make an excellent councilmember. Hameeduddin should also be interesting. I think he'll slowly become a strong independent voice on the council.

And thank the good Lord that Rudolph was thrown out! Teaneck deserves a HUGE pat on the back!

Anonymous said...

It is mind boggling that a two year campaign of lies and filth against an outstanding public servant would result in the victories of an anti-Semitic duo.

Toffler ought to be held liable for her criminal behavior and Honis is not fit for Council.

I guess yesterday proves you can fool some of the people a lot.

This town is clearly divided. West Englewood strongly resents what has happened.

And we still love Elie Katz, a brilliant dynamic gift to Teaneck.

Anonymous said...

Barbara Toffler is not an anti-Semite. Her father was a founder of the Teaneck Jewish Center. She is a member of Congregation Beth Shalom. You don't have to like her political views but don't be so quick to call someone an anti-Semite. Haven't we had enough of name calling. Maybe West Englewood out to realize that other people live in this town too.

Anonymous said...

Whatever the results of the election, someone really does need to explain to Honis why the comment she made about "gas chambers" was so insensitive. Maybe Toffler can do it.

Anonymous said...

Can you believe West Englewood voted so overwhelmingly for Robinson. That guy was so far in away not capable of serving on the council. Team Teaneck really blew it.

Anonymous said...

Ahhhhh I'm walking on air today. I just wanted that walking Chillul Hashem (desecration of God's name) Rudolph out. I go to town council meetings, neighborhood watch meetings, and watch him around town. What a disgrace on so many levels. As an Orthodox Jew I DID vote for Monica. I follow her record and honestly? one comment is not nearly as bad as the constant racist crap that comes out of Rabbi P's mouth and synagogue. I won't even set foot in there for a simcha. Wasn't he the one who wanted the West Englewood section of Teaneck to withdraw and start their own ghetto, oops I mean township? Please. All of this nonsense from the moneyed racists at the JV&O and others have shown that it doesn't work. YESSSSSSS Rudolph is out!!! I did my best to campaign against him and it worked!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Maybe all of you chicken anonymous commentators should start going to the council meetings and watching who really is the racist (Rudolph) and not just talking from rumors. You will see what is REALLY happening in this town.

Poor Eli, I've always been a supporter of his but he really blew it with the Rudolph endorsement. All that money down the drain... You know, I got 6 calls yesterday from that Trashy Team Teaneck to go out and vote for evil. What a waste. I voted at 6:15 am AGAINST Rudolph!!!

Anonymous said...

I am also Orthodox and I voted for Toffler at 6:30 yesterday morning. She is head and shoulders above every other candidate in this election.

BTW: Where is Teaneck Oberserver (BGK)? I guess his rants against Tom Abbott weren't too successful.

Anonymous said...

Now maybe Monica will move out of mom & dad's house and buy her own home in town so that she know what its like to pay taxes.

what a dummy. She just doesn't get it.

Anonymous said...

That dummy is laughing all the way to town hall. Keep up the name calling. It will get you far.

Anonymous said...

The founders and builders of Bnai Yeshurun helped grow Teaneck and were tolerant and respectful of others. Rabbi Macy Gordon had good relationships with other denominations and groups in town. What happened?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 7:30 am. - Macy Gordon built the Orthodox community and you ask what happened??? Publically Racist Pruzansky is what happened!!! There are so many people who will NOT even set foot in that shul because of him and his racist stances! The entire township is getting wise. My relatives were honored by Bnei Yeshrun a few years ago and I made it a point NOT to go to give one CENT to that institution of hate and nastiness. I am Orthodox and DID vote for Honis because I saw no difference between what she said and what Pruzansky says on a continuous basis. He is the Reverand Wright of Teaneck. What an embarrassment. Poor Katz, I believe he got sucked into the ugliness of Pruzansky and Rudolph. Why was he endorsing a possible felon like Rudolph anyway? Was it a "whoops" moment?

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, some of the younger rabbis in other shuls are starting to follow his lead albeit in more subtle ways. Don't they realize Teaneck is Modern Orthodox -- open, respectful and eager to work with others.

Anonymous said...

Now that the real "possible felon" Toffler is in the limelight, let's hope her victims go after her for the huge sums she stole from them. Let's hear about her real criminality non-stop the way we kept hearing (and still hear on this blog) about the BS of Rudy's vote.

Anonymous said...

Wow! I just read my emailfrom Teaneckshuls. It seems like Ferriero (Robinson-Rudolph), Kates/Ostrow (Goldman), and Weinberg (Jackson) will be chipping in for a BIG loser party.

Anonymous said...

We do work with others. Team Teaneck was all about working with others.

Take a look at who was elected Deputy Mayor two years ago. Take a look at the Board appointments (yeah, yeah we know about Toffler and Loft) and their reflection of the community.

The divisiveness flows from people like Toffler and Honis. They promised a new multi-million dollar revaluation because of a "bias" THEY invented.

Anonymous said...

If anyone other than the same ten people actually read these blogs, Goldman and Rose would have been elected instead of finishing last.

All that ballot stuffing at Esther's blog for nothing, Alan.

Anonymous said...

"as a jew".. "as a black" .."as a secular jew" .. "as a christian" DO YOU HEAR YOURSELVES? You are all a larger disgrace then Honis's comment about her fear of being sent to the gas chambers.

I would love to see any one of you go to a grocer store and say" AS A (insert race, religion or creed) i think the service of this place is (insert critic) .


YOU ARE ALL INAPPROPRIATE!! and as a" Teneck taxpayer" i am embarrassed to have anything to with you sick bigots.

and Regardless of who payed off who and won the most votes..Elie Katz remains the only mayor in recent history to bring needed change here.. i dont care about the other bunches.but he will now have a hard time getting this town on track with Ms. Gas Chamber on board.

Anonymous said...

Nah, Boss Weinberg put out street money to get the vote out in the Northeast for Toffler and Honis. She seems to have ditched Jackson as too difficult to haul along.

Nice expensive piece of slick viciousness she had Toffler put in the mail Saturday. Irwin would be proud.

Anonymous said...

Wow! I just read my Teaneckshuls e-mail. It seems like Ferriero (Robinson-Rudolph), Kates/Ostrow (Goldman-Rose), and Weinberg (Jackson) will be chipping in for a BIG loser party.

Anonymous said...

It was Rabbi P. and Yitz Stern who told us how we were supposed to vote "as Orthodox Jews." Rabbi P. even delivered a sermon to that effect. They cynically created a "diverse" slate of the most unqualified candidates and wrote us letters mocking those who criticize them for not promoting "diversity." They played to our fears, telling us you must vote for Team Teaneck, otherwise you will get authentic diversity, which they characterized as "quotas" for Orthodox Jews. They joined forces with the most sensationalist rag, the Jewish Voice and Opinion to label unfairly their most qualified competitors as anti-Orthodxox. It was they who played identity politics. They made the atmosphere so threatening that those of us who stood against this stupidity ran the risk of being branded traitors.

The truth is the silent majority of Orthodox Jews in Teaneck probably agree with Ms. Toffler. We don't want to live in the ghetto of Monsey that has become a mess with no regard for zoning laws. We moved here precisely because we do not want to live in Monsey. So don't blame Ms. Toffler for having the courage and wisdom to speak the truth. Direct your concerns of inappropriate conduct at those who were most inappropriate: Rabbi P., Yitz and the group that pursued identity politics through Team Teaneck.

anonymous said...

Thank you Rabbi Pruzansky for giving us Hameedudin! What a nighrmare. We all did what you told us to do. We held our noses and voted for your slate, and now we get Hameedudin. I am absolutely speechless.

anonymous said...

The one thing that is heartenng about this election -- if there is anything -- is that the orthodox community (to which I belong) has shown itself to be largely immune to the detritus that was coming out of its so-called leaders. These rabbis think that because they stand in front of hundreds of people every week, they can sell us anything. But some of them are nothing but mountbanks and we see right through them. Let this be a lesson to Rabbi P and some of the others: stick to what your job is and stay the heck out of politics, if you don't want to risk looking like the idiots you seem right now.

Anonymous said...

Where is Teaneck Observer (BGK)? His apology to Tom Abbott would go a long way in beginning the healing process.

Anonymous said...

I'm truly surprised that Bnei Yeshrun has not lost their tax deductibility status. It is ILLEGAL for a House of Worship which is tax exempt to discuss any politics or political endorcements from the pulpit. Where is the IRS when we need them?

Anonymous said...

Can someone report what it is Rabbi P. said from the pulpit last Shabbos about the election.

Barnaby Jones said...

We have freedom of speech in this country. You've heard of the first amendment, haven't you? Rabbi Pruzansky can express his opinion as to who his congregants should vote for. What is the difference if he expresses it from the pulpit or privately? This is none of the IRS's business.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

If anyone other than the same ten people actually read these blogs, Goldman and Rose would have been elected instead of finishing last.

All that ballot stuffing at Esther's blog for nothing, Alan.


Get over yourself, I'm very sorry that your Team Teaneck buddies got messed over. But hate to break it to you, but there were about 400 votes on Esther's blog and over 20,000 votes casted in the REAL election. In no way was that poll a real representation of what would actually happen on election day.

Anonymous said...

We also have rules about the privilege of 501(c)(3) status. If the rules have been violated, the (taxpayer funded) IRS should be pursuing those violations. "The law of the land is the law," remember that!!!

Jervis said...

MORONICA & TOFFLER-

Cee U Next Tuesday

Anonymous said...

Why is it when a black church endorses a candidate it nobody says boo but if a synagogue allegedly does it the whole world goes crazy?

Good Riddance! said...

Elnatan may have made a fool of himself, his ticket, Boss Joe, Rabbi P, and Mayor Katz, but look on the bright side - he can finally play with his Blackberry in peace!

Anonymous said...

Really? It is illegal for clergy to endorse candidates? Because I thought that was how we got George Bush.

Anonymous said...

Found the following on the web by a law professor:

It is clear that under existing law, 501(c)(3) organizations are prohibited, as a condition of their exempt status, from intervening in a campaign for or against a candidate for public office. There are no ifs, ands, or buts. These organizations have no First Amendment Right to engage in such speech, as the prohibition against intervention in a political campaign is merely a condition for receiving exempt status. If an organization wants to engage in advocacy on behalf of a candidate, it may forgo (c)(3) status and engage in political intervention (subject to campaign finance laws). Failure to comply with the limitation on political intervention can lead to the revocation of an organization's exempt status.

The prohibition on intervention in political campaigns is extremely important for our democratic process. Section 501(c)(3) organizations are not only tax exempt, but contributions to them are tax deductible. Thus, all taxpayers share in the burden of providing a subsidy to 501(c)(3) organizations. This subsidy makes it wholly inappropriate for charitable and religious organizations to promote candidates or political parties. If 501(c)(3) organizations are allowed to do so, they would be the only organizations that received a taxpayer subsidy to engage in electioneering activity for or against a candidate. Such a preference might be unconstitutional, but it also would be a risk to the democratic process by providing a taxpayer-subsidized preference to some voices over others.

Swiggle said...

I'm truly surprised that Bnei Yeshrun has not lost their tax deductibility status. It is ILLEGAL for a House of Worship which is tax exempt to discuss any politics or political endorcements from the pulpit. Where is the IRS when we need them?

Everyone always focuses on the first part of the first amendment (the establishment clause) but has no clue how to interpret the second part (Free Exercise Clause). There is NOTHING inherently wrong with a Rabbi, Mayor or any other citizen speaking about politics.

It does get into campaign finance rules if a 501(c)(3) starts specifically endorsing a candidate in their official capacity, but a newspaper article certainly is not a rabinical endorsement.

As for his statements from the pulpit, politics (especially when they are the 'talk of the town') is fair game and ayone that says otherwise has a warped view of the law in this Country.

Anonymous said...

It all depends on what was said. Could one of the many people who attend Bnei Yeshurun recount what it is Rabbi P. said from the pulpit.

Anonymous said...

Barnaby JOnes,
It is in the IRS statute code that a house of worship may not publically endorse any candidtae for secular election or they risk losing their status as a tax exempt organization. Period. Look it up.

Anonymous said...

Hey, a lot of us 'go crazy' when any church endorses any candidate. Black or otherwise. One dimentional people just aren't paying attention. All of them should lose their tax status. We need the revenue here in Teaneck!

Joe said...

Did Rabbi P. actually endorse Rudolph et al. from the pultpit during his sermon? I must admit that would be pretty shocking.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:27 am 5/14:
You are assuming that people paid attention R. Pruzansky. Many in that shul read, sleep or tune out the nonsense during the sermons. I stopped staying inside the sanctuary for fear of contracting contagious bigotry. What did he say?

Anonymous said...

Isn't R. Pruzansky a criminal defense attorney by trade? Is he still a member of the bar in NY? He should know better and know the statutes - or through his hubris choses to ignore them?

Anonymous said...

Is it just Rabbi P. or did other rabbis endorse Team Teaneck? Someone mentioned something about Rabbi R. of Beth Aaron.

Anonymous said...

I heard second hand that he said something like this -
Elections are on this Tuesday and it is very important to get out and vote. And one of our own members, Elnatan Rudolph(pointing to him sitting in the back)happens to be running...

Once again I heard this from someone who was there. I would like to hear another first hand account of what actually happened.

But the thing I find funny here is that the same person told me that Rudy doesn't even daven at bnei yeshurin and that was the first time he ever saw him there. Guess it was a convenient coincidence.

Anonymous said...

Is it just Rabbi P. or did other rabbis endorse Team Teaneck? Someone mentioned something about Rabbi R. of Beth Aaron.

Rabbi R. most certainly did not publicly endorse any candidate. He did urge everyone to exercise their right to vote, which is perfectly innocuous.

anonymous said...

there have beed nonprofit organizations that had lost their nonprofit status for meddling in political affairs by endorsing condidates. the IRS does not have the resources to go after everyone. the pick and choose and every once in a while they nail someone. based on what i have heard, they have a good case with Bnai Yeshurun and possibly Beth Aharon. at the very least this should be brought to their attention so that they can conduct an investigation. if there was no overt endorsement, then fine. but if there was, as some people are saying, then their status shoudl be revoked.

Let's get divisive said...

at the very least this should be brought to their attention so that they can conduct an investigation.

Great, as long as we are going to start launching investigations, I have a few:

Why was NAOMI CRAMER going into polling locations with a credentials issued by the Board of Elections that had someone eleses name on it?

Why were police called at the behest of Barbara Toffler when someone from another candidate went in to her district with REAL credentials?

anonymous said...

isn't nonprofit status given by the state, as opposed to federal? shouldn't the state tax authorities be looking into this? and why is this limited to tax authorites? I thought it was the job of the attorney general to enforce the nonprofit regulations. If they have been violated, the AG should be conducting the investigation.

Zev Mo said...

First, this blog thread is making me sick. All the anonymous 5-year olds are out.

I haven't shied away from endorsing Council-member-elect Hameeduddin, and I am thrilled that he won. I am Frum (Orthodox) and I didn't get any 'marching orders' from any Rabbi to do so either. I am very excited and happy that the Frum community came out in support of a wonderful candidate who just happens to be a Muslim. Can I just say that one more time? He is a fantastic candidate... who just happens to be a Muslim... not the other way around.

What TeamTeaneck represented by running the most diverse coalition in Teaneck, if not national, political history, was the very ethos that our town represents... diversity. I was happy to support TT, and although not every member was elected, the message still rings true. Where the hell else could you have had an Orthodox Jew running with a Deacon and a Muslim? What we have in common is so much more than the labels that these three gentlemen have. I would vote for each one individually, but I was happy to vote for them all as a team.

However, reading this blog, I feel that there are groups in town that want to put a wedge between the Muslim and Jewish communities. They are trying to suggest that the Orthodox community
comments like:
"THE CHICKKKENS . . . HAVE COME HOME . . . TO ROOST! and their name is HAMEEDUDIN!!!"
or
"and we end up with Hameedudin!!! this is just unbelievable."

Are you people smoking crack?

Either you honestly believe that and you are beyond help, or you are trying to do damage to both the Orthodox and Muslim communities on purpose. To that, I would say... you have no chance. I think this is only the beginning of a renewed friendship and a closer alliance between our communities.

I commend Mayor Katz, one of the most inclusive people that I know, on his foresight and support of Team Teaneck. My friends and I have met some phenomenally dynamic members of the Teaneck Muslim community. The ridiculous anonymous rants of the ignorant, or those outside our communities who seek to purposefully divide, will not keep us from continuing the friendships new and renewed.

Mabrouk!
----

Secondly,
In an election, some people lose. Those are the breaks. Do you see anyone here poking fun at Audra Jackson? No. So let's move on to the realities of what is ahead.

As I said on TP, Council-member-elect Toffler and council-member Honis have a lot of reconciliation to do with a significant portion of town. And the spotlight is now on them to showcase the ideas that they ran on for the stability and improvement of our town.

One thing is for sure, I think the council meetings will get a little more attendance. :)

anonymous said...

to LET'S GET DIVISIVE:

I don't mind investigations of any kind. more often than not they get at the truth. so sure, let's investigate everything. but something tells me that the powers that be ini the orthodox community -- Rabbi P, Stern and Katz -- would have a lot more to answer for. just a hunch

anonymous said...

to Zev Mo:

if you think that Rabbi P and Katz put Hameeduddin on the TT ticket to "renew frindhips" and make "close alliances", you are the one smocking crack. anyone who had ever heard Rabbi P speak knows this. this was a cunical as cynical gets. "let's put a muslim on the ticket so they can't accus us of bigotry, wouldnt that be a hoot!" And you should speak to some of your orthodox friends today -- the ones who voted for teh entire TT ticket. Ask them if they are happy that Hameduddin won without Ruddolph. most of them will say they are appalled. and this should tell you exactly what the plan was and how it backfired.

glass half full said...

I think all my fellow bloggers would agree, on TeaneckProgress as well as here, that there was a great deal of arrogance and anger displayed during this election period, and the phrase "chickens come home to roost" is very applicable. The Monday Morning quarterbacking is already going on online and in the grocery stores but it's clear that attack mailings and ads sometimes ddo much more damage energizing the opposition by victimizing their intended target(s).

As for the words and actions of Rabbi P, many in Teaneck still haven't forgotten his comment in the paper years ago in an article about FIRST NIGHT TEANECK as "the celebration of an alien culture." He needs to rediscover some humility and show his congregants that he can make efforts to reconnect with the larger community by participating in Teaneck Clergy Council, for starters.

We need to move on. I agree with Swiggle that the actions of the council over the next two years will demonstrate much more than all the empty words everyone will now spout. I very much agree with 2008anony that we should have NO MORE PUBLIC FORUMS (a magnet for those who desire to be big fish in small ponds), but rather small listening sessions and quite frankly, I will be looking to see the seven Council members set goals and direction -- their top responsibility as our elected officials and leaders.

anonymous said...

to glass half full:

yours are sober thoughts. unfourtunately, the chances of Rabbi P developing a modicum of humility are about as good as Rudolph developing a semblance of a brain. that is to say -- its possible, but highly unlikely.

concerned said...

But the thing I find funny here is that the same person told me that Rudy doesn't even daven at bnei yeshurin and that was the first time he ever saw him there. Guess it was a convenient coincidence.

Absolutely correct. Mr. Rudolph may or may not be a member of Bnai Yeshurun (I can check it up later), but he most certainly does not attend services there on any regular basis. I know this first hand because I daven at Bnai Yeshurun every Shabbos and have never seen him here. Also, I've occasionally been to the Shul where he regularly davens, and as far as I know, he's there every week (and I safely assume, a member).

This makes Rabbi P's comments all the more bizarre and uncalled for. Durring his sermon he singled out Elnatan (I don't recall him calling him a member of the shul) while he was talking about the "crucial" election facing the community. Rudolph was there for one reason, and one reason alone. He was there for Rabbi P's endorsement before the entire congregation. This wasn't a spur of the moment or a slip of the tongue. This was entirely pre-conceived by both parties involved.

anonymous said...

to all you can't-we-all-just-get-along bloggers, just remember that the next election is likely to be even more contentious than this one. to avoid the same ugliness again, lessons have to be learned, and those responsible have to be taken to task. and a clear message has to be sent to all the rabbis in town: your job is to tend to the spiritual well being of your congregants, not stick your noses into politics. you are barely adequate at the former, and you are a disaster at the latter. any rabbi with dreams of political grandeur -- as Rabbi P certainly is -- should be put in his place. otherwise, we are in for more and worse of the same the next time around.

Dave said...

Rudolph still has a chance to win a council seat in Brooklyn

anonymous said...

this is from a NY Times article back in 1995:

Mr. Foxman, the national director of the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, wrote in a local Jewish newspaper recently that he would no longer worship at Congregation B'nai Yeshurun in Teaneck, N.J., an Orthodox synagogue of which he has been a member for more than 20 years, because its rabbi "spews hate and vitriol toward the elected leaders of Israel."

this is the rabbi who will unite Teaneck?

Dave said...

When is that Eruv coming down? Will it be done in time for this weekend or do we have to wait another week or two?

Anonymous said...

Zev Mo --

Since you are frum, did you get Mr. Stern's May 9th letter. Someone reported on it in one of the recent blog posts. Apparently, he made very clear the purpose his "diverse" slate. He said all those people criticizing him this year were just showing that "diversity" means "quotas for Orthodox Jews." Anyone who has been raised Orthodox knows how anathema quotas are to the Jewish community. It is what limited the number of capable Jews at major universities until the late Sixties. It is what kept Jews out of certain professions and neighborhoods. Mr. Stern was playing on people's fears.

More importantly, the statement shows the purpose of Team Teaneck was to elect an Orthodox Jew to the council. Unfortunately, Mr. Stern, Rabbi P. and others selected a very unqualified candidate who was the least impressive member of the current council. So, they pretended they were interested in diversity to blunt criticism. Look what it got us.

Anonymous said...

So, they pretended they were interested in diversity to blunt criticism. Look what it got us.

My heartfelt thanks go out to Rabbi Steven Pruzansky for spewing the hate and nonsense that convinced all sensible people in this town to kick the senseless and classless Rudolph out of office. You did the right thing Rav P! Teaneck thanks you!

Anonymous said...

I wonder what will happen to Rudolph's job over at Boss Joe, Inc.? He's not of much use there now that he's been rendered entirely powerless and insignificant.

C'est la vie...He probably blew his entire salary on the campaign anyway...

Anonymous said...

I'm truly surprised that Bnei Yeshrun has not lost their tax deductibility status. It is ILLEGAL for a House of Worship which is tax exempt to discuss any politics or political endorcements from the pulpit. Where is the IRS when we need them?

This is an excellent example of a divisive individual. I work with a lot of African American churches, and I can tell you that it is typical and pretty common for the pastor/minister/father to endorse a political candidate whom they feel can help the community. Why you choose to focus on Bnai Yeshurun only shows that you hold Jews to a different standard. Personally, I find that rather abhorent. I hope you and the ilk who holds views like yours don't actually live in our great town.

If you are going to investigate churches/synagogues/mosques for holding political views and endorsing candidates, you might as well remove all their tax exempt status'.

After this divisive campaign, this town needs to heal. I'm hoping the candidates elected can do it.

Anonymous said...

Could you explain how those churches justify the political endorsements with their 501(c)(3) status. Obviously, you would not condone wrongdoing on the grounds that two wrongs make it right.

Anonymous said...

The allegation that the eruv was going to be removed was a complete fabrication from the last election. It was something the Jewish Voice and Opinion perpetuated and had no basis in fact.

Swiggle said...

It is ILLEGAL for a House of Worship which is tax exempt to discuss any politics or political endorcements from the pulpit. Where is the IRS when we need them?

I personally love it how everyone becomes an attorney whenever it comes to the first amendment.

Let's get something straight. There is NOTHING wrong with discussing politics in a church/mosque/synogogue/etc... whether on the lawn, in the basement or from the pulpit.

There ARE areas where the law touches upon the type of speech that crosses the line.

Just like there is nothing wrong with a polling location in a Church (District #3 and District #16) or Synogogue (District 12) there is nothing wrong with talking politics in those buildings wither (except on the day of the election within 100 feet of the moderator).

In fact, to tell leaders of a congregation that they should not speak about an election that affects not only those in attendance but the interpersonal relationships between those in attendance and their neighbors is the farthest thing from the minds of the framers of our Constitution and the bill of rights.

We have Freedom of Religion, not Freedom from Religion in this Country.

I think that something else is important to remember. There seems to be a general feeling growing (not just in Teaneck) but society as a whole that noone has a right to say comments that offend you. They do! And how you deal with those comments goes a long way in determining the type of society we create.

Noone can force you to like your neighbor (or force them to put in a sidewalk - as someone said above), but you can get out and talk to your neighbor. People don't seem to do that any more.

I had a chance sitting at my polling location yesterday to meet more of my neighbors than I have ever met before. Most were cordial, decent people that just seem too busy to meet others (even those that live in close proximity to them).

Who knows, maybe know when they pass me they might say hello.

Zev Mo said...

Anon 12:56:
Ask them if they are happy that Hameduddin won without Ruddolph. most of them will say they are appalled. and this should tell you exactly what the plan was and how it backfired.

I have, and they are happy. Any other questions?

I think it is you who are making this into a religion issue. Do you normally look at people as religion first, person second? Sure people are upset about Rudy not winning, it was a slate! But I see a seething undertone of hostility in your statements that I think requires some introspection. Your statements do nothing but divide and instigate a position which, in my opinion, is fabricated.

---
Anon 8:18: Look what it got us

What did it get us? Uh, a great candidate, Council-member-elect Hameeduddin. What's your point?

Anonymous said...

Swiggle: Your arguments are a complete red herring. This is not a constitutional question. It's a statutory one. 501(c)(3) status is based on a provision of the tax code, which as I understand, prevents religious institutions from engaging in political campaigning or else lose that status. The question is, as a matter of statutory law, has the church of synagogue violated the statute so that the lose 501(c)(3) status?

I am not sayin Bnai Yeshurun did anything wrong. But if you presume to be defining the issue, at least do so correctly.

Swiggle said...

There are several means of participating that do not voiolate the IRS 501(c)(3) code including, but not limited to:

(FROM IRS WEB SITE)
Issue Advocacy vs. Political Campaign Intervention

Under federal tax law, section 501(c)(3) organizations may take positions on public policy issues, including issues that divide candidates in an election for public office.

On another level, I really have to say that I don't understand the effort on this blog to impune criminality to any religious institutions in town.

Last election, there were forums held right up until this election. Is that what you want again? To what end?

Anonymous said...

You are right. Religious institutions should have their voices heard about policy issues. Relgious institutions do good works and they need to make sure government pursues policies that allow those good works to continue. What they can't do is endorse a particular candidate in an election. It's the law. You don't like it, change it. But it's the law.

Swiggle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Swiggle said...

You are right. Religious institutions should have their voices heard about policy issues. Relgious institutions do good works and they need to make sure government pursues policies that allow those good works to continue.

That's all I was saying. I agree 100% that they (like everyone else) should not break any laws. I apologize if it seemed as if I was advocating otherwise.

Personally, I was not at the location during this time frame. Was anyone that has been opining here?

Dave said...

Let me not mince words. People vote for (candidates who represent) the issues they feel are important to THEM, not necessarily to the community as a whole or to their neighbor. If I was an orthodox jew in West Englewood, I will vote for candidates who want to build office parks in Glenpointe, because that is good for ME. I'm not voting for the best interests of somebody who lives on the corner of Degraw and Teaneck Road.
I don't care what happens on Teaneck Road near the Armory. My taxes are the issue, not somebody else's traffic nightmare. It's not a knock at 'diversity' or any particular group of people. I have to do what is good for my family.
I would not be surprised if the orthodox community sends some candidates out for the next school board election. (See Lawrence, NY). Vote against any and all budget items, discontinue sports and extra-curricular activities, live with just the bare basics. This community does not use the schools yet supports them with tax dollars. It is probably in their interest to slash as much school spending as possible. I can't see how that's wrong. It's called democracy, and it still works.

anonymous said...

to Zev Mo:
if you are telling us that your orthodox friends are happy about having Hameedudin on the council, then you are either full of it or your friends represent a tiny minority of teaneck's orthodox contingent. My orthodox friends -- all of them, without exception --
are absolutely beside themselves at what these idiots and hypocrites got us into. and by that I mean first and foremost rabbi P. i wonder what you'll be saying when Hameduddin votes for someone other than Katz as the next mayor. That will be the true acid test. nobody is trying to divide anyone here. we are just looking at the stark reality of what the TT gang and their sponsors wrought and we don't like it one bit.

Zev Mo said...

@anon:
My orthodox friends -- all of them, without exception --
are absolutely beside themselves at what these idiots and hypocrites got us into.


I am sorry to hear that. Might I suggest that you get some new friends?

First, are you a lemming?

Second, that logic is absolutely ridiculous. It is as insane as the Teaneck United message that said that we must vote for more African American and female representation on the council to match the demographics. Like a white Jewish male cannot properly represent the community if he has good judgement. Like an African American woman cannot properly represent a polish demographic. Like a 25 year old couldn't properly represent an 87 year old.
The same logic that TU used when saying that somehow having more than a proportional amount of Orthodox on the council was too much and they were "taking over". Outrageous. This is classic bigoted, racist, and ignorant malarkey. If you people can't get over yourselves, because you can't handle the complexity of a person who doesn't look like you, or practice the same traditions as you, but is able to fully represent your interests equitably, then we are in a whole lot of trouble. This office is about the interests of the entire community, that is why I voted for TT.

Zev Mo said...

Vote against any and all budget items, discontinue sports and extra-curricular activities, live with just the bare basics. This community does not use the schools yet supports them with tax dollars. It is probably in their interest to slash as much school spending as possible. I can't see how that's wrong. It's called democracy, and it still works.

While I understand your logic, and why you would think that somehow this makes sense, it is probably the worst idea ever conceived. In effect, what you are doing is destroying the school system, because you don't use it. What you should be doing is trying to get representation that will increase funding from the county, state, and national levels and increasing incomes (since they have been flat or gone down over the last 30 years).

These issues are bigger than Teaneck, and tearing apart the public education system because you chose to send your children to private school, doesn't make any sense. The public education we have in this country is antiquated, underfunded, and the current unions are mismanaged. However, that doesn't mean they should be dissolved, it means they should be fixed. Public education THE most important program our country provides. The question is how to best fund it to remove the brunt of the cost on the local taxpayer. Unfortunately, what we see now is the result of the 'war on public schools' that Reagan began. How is that working out for you?

Anonymous said...

Concerned,
Thank you for making me $25!!! I daven at Keter Torah and when I saw that Rudy was not there this week (the security guard looked lonely, he had no one to speak to from the serman until the end when Rudy hangs out with him in the halls) I bet my wife $25 that he was either at Bnei Yeshrun or Beth Aaron politicing for the vote. By the way, when he is not in the sanctuary letting his daughter walk all over the backs of the seats of the row in front of him, he is in the hall sans daughter. Not that I hang out there. It is the joke of the shul and the kiddush club.

Anonymous said...

Is it true Rudy forgot he lived in Teaneck and voted in Brooklyn (again?)

Swiggle said...

While I understand your logic, and why you would think that somehow this makes sense, it is probably the worst idea ever conceived.

Zev,

Stop being so harsh on the guy...

After all, if the school he attended didn't teach him how to think independently, you really can't expect him to understand the value of an education.

Dave said...

Just to set the record straight: The Constitution does not mention education, and the U.S. Supreme Court has held conclusively there is no federal Constitutional right to an education.
That's where we should be heading in Teaneck. Close the schools! Save our tax money!

anonymous said...

to zev mo --

i like my friends fine, thank you.

what you don't seem to get -- probably because you haven't been around the block enough -- is that local politics is almost exclusively identity politics. Always has been and always will be. Nothing to do with logic, just the way it is. And the reality of the situation is that Orthodox Jews, with the possible exception of you and your friends (although I doubt about the latter and think you are BSing about it) had never bargained to get Hameedudin as the key swing vote on the council when they followed Rabbi P and his cohorts down that particular primrose path. Had Mr. Hameedudin not been part of the TT ticket, he would have received 5 orthodox votes (probably you and your deluded friends). You can rant about the illogic of it all, but this is the reality and Rabbi P et al have a lot to answer for. When you grown up, you'll understand.

Bertram said...

Keter Torah has a kiddush club??? That's it -- I am moving to that neigborhood.

Fred said...

anon is absolutely right. If Hameedudin was not on the TT ticket, he would have received a handful of orthodox votes at most. and now he is in and Rudolph is out. It's just hilarious!

Swiggle said...

Just to set the record straight: The Constitution does not mention education, and the U.S. Supreme Court has held conclusively there is no federal Constitutional right to an education.

Too bad neither of you had a decent education:

The court ruled that the right to a free appropriate public education “belongs to thechild alone,” 409 F. 3d, at 757

Zev Mo said...

Mr. Anon, if that is your real name...

You are right. I guess I am not old enough to allow my judgement to be blurred by an aged cynical response to politics. I guess you will vote for McCain too. Figures you would vote for Nixon over JFK.

I am happy to see that old school politics will fade into the sunset of hate, racism, bigotry, and ignorance. Politics like yours exists to increase pain, suffering, misery, and death. I'll be quite glad to see its leave.

And by the way, I don't go to Rabbi P's shul. Neither do my friends. How would they have been coaxed into the position if they weren't even part of the audience?

esther said...

So much for the ideals purportedly represented by Team Teaneck.

I thought Muhammed Hameeduddin was a brilliant choice: intelligent, articulate and unthreatening to people who don't trust Muslims. It was Robinson's utter lack of qualifications that made the ticket seem like a cynical ploy rather than an earnest attempt to bring people together.

If Elie had been able to come up with an African American candidate of the caliber of Hameeduddin, the ticket would have been hard to beat, even with Rudolph's baggage weighing it down.

I think Hameeduddin's going to be an excellent addition to the council, whether he sides with Katz on all issues or not.

Swiggle said...

Figures you would vote for Nixon over JFK.

Hey now....

Unless you wanna compare Chinese ping pong to the Bay of Pigs, you had better not be painting me with the same brush as anonymous. And I think that IS is real name.

Anonymous said...

Is there really a Committee to Keep Teaneck Non-Partisan? If not, what is the punishment for a fake committee name on a political flyer?

Anonymous said...

What's the address on the fake flier. Why don't you give it to Schwartz and Kramer.

Well, maybe just Schwartz...Kramer's wife used fake credentials yesterday with someone else's address on it.

anonymous said...

oh what a charlatan you are swiggle. the case you cite is about the rights of disabled children under IDEA. it has nothing to do with the right to public education under the constitution. i guess your education hasnt been wasted.

anonymous said...

to zev --

No, I am voting for Obama. At least he is honest about his identity politics.

anonymous said...

Mr. Swiggle:

here's from wikepedia:

In the United States, as per the Tenth Amendment, all powers which are not assigned to the federal government by the U.S. Constitution are reserved to the people or individual states. Since the federal Constitution does not mention education, and the U.S. Supreme Court has held conclusively there is no federal Constitutional right to an education, public education has always been under the general control of the individual states. The steadily expanding role of the federal government in public education since the late nineteenth century has recently become a subject of heated debate, as many states (and more than a few Senators and members of Congress) perceive the U.S. Government to be overstepping its constitutional bounds.

Now, do you want to do a westlaw search and find the supre court case that holds there is no constitutional right to public education? Or would you rather not?

anonymous said...

Time's up, SWIGGLE:

the case is san antonio independent school district v.rodriguez, 411 us 1 (1973).

back to law school

Barnaby Jones said...

thank you for nailing that blowhard swiggle, anon. he's like most all newly-minted lawyers. thinks he can bs his way out anythng by citing some case no one can check. thank you for putting him in his place.

Swiggle said...

I don't think I've ever been called a charlatan before for making a simple mistake.

I don't like being wrong, but I've come to the understanding that it happens from time to time.

I'm sorry....I stand corrected (sort of).

That being said, while the right to education is NOT a right under the Federal Constitution. It is a RIGHT UNDER THE STATE CONSTITUTION!

Robinson v. Cahill
69 N.J. 133, 351 A.2d 713
N.J. 1975.

N.J.S.A. Const. Art. 8, § 4, P 1
1. The Legislature shall provide for the maintenance and support of a thorough and efficient system of free public schools for the instruction of all the children in the State between the ages of five and eighteen years.

Anonymous said...

The flier is identified by " PAID FOR BY THE COMMITTEE TO KEEP TEANECK NON-PARTISAN 62 HILLSIDE AVE. TEANECK NJ 07666"

Anonymous said...

The flier is identified by " PAID FOR BY THE COMMITTEE TO KEEP TEANECK NON-PARTISAN 62 HILLSIDE AVE. TEANECK NJ 07666"

Can't be. That's Laura Zucker's address. She wouldn't make up a fake committee, would she?

Teaneck Democrat said...

Is Rudolph the only councilmember with a county job?

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the flier was paid for by a legitimate committee. Has anyone ever heard of it?

anonymous said...

to swiggle:

the obligation on the legislature under the state constitution is to provide for a "thorough and efficient" free public school system. the problem is that the system, as it currently exists, is anything but thorought and efficient. if you read the relevant caselaw under this clause you will see that the meaning of the words "thorough and efficient" and their implications on the right to public education has been litigated a great deal. the issue is far from clear cut. but certainly, if the legislature is unable to provide for a thorough and efficient education, if, in fact, it is wasting taxpayers' money on an inherrently wrecked and likely irreperable educational system, then it is not fulfilling its constitutional mandate. if you read further case law on this, you will see that when a legislature does not fulfil its constitutional mandate, the mandate itself becomes in effect nullified. this is what some of us are hoping for.

Swiggle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Swiggle said...

this is what some of us are hoping for

Getting past the fact that your post contained about 4 'if's'...

There's a greater likelihood of finding a right to education between "promote the general Welfare" and the 9th Amendment than there is of getting rid of public education in NJ.

Any attempt to state otherwise is foolish.

anonymous said...

swiggle:

the "ifs" were not hypotheticals. that should have been clear to anyone with a good education. the system is in fact wrecked and does in fact waste tax payers' money.
if your point is that mine is a pipe dream, you may well be right. But we can hope. I was only pointing out that your reliance on the constitutional undepinnings of free education -- which is where we started this after all -- is iniherently faulty. I gather this point you concede. Nothing more need be said.

Anonymous said...

1. Team Teaneck loves Mohammed.
2. Had he not had our support Jackson would have been elected, not Rudy.
3. He is grateful for the support he received in the Orthodox districts and will serve all of Teaneck, including the Orthodox community with distinction.
4. As a leader of Team Teaneck I have encountered no one in the Orthodox community expressing the kinds of views purported here in the echo chamber to be those of a hostile Orthodox community.
5. Mohammed's election is an outstanding event in Teaneck political history.
6. Look at the photo in today's Record of Toffler's victory party and understand that demographics in Teaneck are with the Orthodox community.

Fred said...

who is this "leader of Team Teaneck?" Is this Elie Katz or Rabbi P?

Anonymous said...

Neither. But I am inside.

Anonymous said...

Where is Teaneck Observer (BGK)? Will he apologize to Tom Abbott?

fred said...

inside what?

Swiggle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Has Rabbi P. responded to some of the anger that is felt toward him in the Orthodox community?

Swiggle said...

But we can hope. I was only pointing out that your reliance on the constitutional undepinnings of free education -- which is where we started this after all -- is iniherently faulty.

That wasn't where I started at all....in fact, my inocuous reference to the Constitution was an after thought. The fact is, as a Country, we signed on to the UN Resolution on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says in Article 26:

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

and even if it didn't, don't be stupid. Everyone knows that an education is important.

Harold said...

The comment about demographics is continued indication of the arrogance some in the Orthodox community exhibit. You lost. Plain and simple. You didn't just lose by a slim margin. You lost by a lot. Toffler topped the ticket (the only one to get over 3000 votes) and she was supposed to be anti-Orhtodox. Honis came in second and she was branded an anti-Semite and the only member of your supposed team who won is Muslim. I am not passing judgment on any of this. Just pointing out that today is not the time to be arrogant. It is to be reflective and wonder maybe we are not the only people in this town. Maybe we should be working with others.

anonymous said...

swiggle:

your post on the constitution was not inocuous. you posted a reference to an irrelevant case -- that in no way stood for the proposition your cited it for -- and accused the preceding bloggers of not having a decent education. and when you were called on it, you backtracked and said you made a mistake. but you offered no words of apology to the people whose education you impugned. You are rude and full of yourself. Now with the UN declaration, you may want to learn that the declaration has no binding effect whatsoever in the US. It mandates absolutely nothing in terms of public education in this country. Just go on westlaw -- if you can use it -- and learn what it really means. And stop trying to impress people with your very limited knowledge of the law. Most people here already recognize that your facilities in that area are extremely limited.

Zev Mo said...

@Swiggle

LOL
Off topic, but facinating enough...

BTW, the Bay of Pigs was concocted under Eisenhower and executed 3 months into his administration.

If you want to read a great book about this, check out: Ultimate Sacrifice by Thom Hartmann & Lamar Waldron

BOP- April 15-19 1961
"The President said then that the plan was so advanced when he came into office in January that it seemed almost impossible to cancel it. The brigade of fourteen hundred anti-Castro Cubans had been in training under CIA officers on a plantation in Guatamala for several months; they were fully armed and eager and ready to go into action. 'If we decided now to call the whole thing off,' the President said, 'I don't know if we could go down there and take the guns away from them.' The President was also under pressure not to postpone the takeoff date of the invasion force any longer. The government of Guatemala was worried about the presence of one thousand four hundred armed foreigners in its country. The President of Guatemala had asked President Kennedy to get the Cubans out of his republic before the end of April, which was then less than two weeks away. Intelligence reports said that Castro was about to receive MIG jets from the Soviet Union, along with Cuban pilots trained in Czechoslovakia to fly those fighter planes. The rebels had to stage their attack before the Russian planes were available for duty in Cuba. The President said he had finally agreed with some reluctance to approve the plan and the date of the landings, Monday, April 17, after the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff accepted his strict stipulation that no American forces could take part in the invasion. He mentioned that Dean Rusk had showed a lack of enthusiasm for the project but was willing to go along with it, provided that the President's insistence on no American military participation was scrupulously observed."

This was supposed to be Nixon's big military success against communism... but he lost.

Anonymous said...

We have worked with others. Look at the choice of Parker two years ago as Deputy Mayor. Look at the Board selections. Facts are not arrogance.

Team teaneck did not make a gain, but it held its own and still has a majority.

Anonymous said...

The Bay of Pigs took place 45 years ago. The mess in Teaneck took place last night. How are we going to clean it all up?

Harold said...

Team Teaneck lost big time. There is no other interpetation of the results. West Englewood believed it was going to win this election big time. Just look at the first comment on this blog when the results came out. I believe the response was "Is this a joke?" No one there thought Rudolph was going to lose even though he had no business being on the council in the first place.

anonymous said...

how exactly did team teaneck "hold its own?" do you really think that's the sentiment in conversations betweem Elie, Yitz and Rabbi P today? "We held our own?" or do you think it's more likely they are saying: "Oh crap, how do we explain this to our contituents?" i rather think tha latter.

anonymous said...

ah, but if Rabbi P and co had been students of history, they would have know the very first lesson of the Bay of Pigs: always consider the worst case scenario and know how to deal with it if it happens. They didnt and that's why they have a lot of explaining to do to their contituents.

Anonymous said...

In the next election Team Teaneck will have the extra 140 votes that were absent this time. "Old" teaneck pulled out every vote they could this time and their voters really are old.

joey said...

Harold is right. I am new to this blog, but I can tell you that the talk all over the orthodox community today is what an unmitigated disaster this election has been.

Anonymous said...

A disaster would have been loss of the majority. It is still four votes for Team Teaneck.

Zev Mo said...

How is this an "unmitigated disaster"? Perhaps I am missing something...

joey said...

you are assuming that Mohammad will vote for them. No one is assuming that where I am.

Harold said...

Actually, I think the conversation among Elie, Yitz and Rabbi P. went something more like this:

Elie: Rabbi what do we do now?

Rabbi: Don't worry. I will divert attention to the situation in Israel and claim that Toffler is a member of the PLO.

Yitz: But Rabbi, Toffler is Jewish. She goes to Congregation Beth Shalom down the street.

Rabbi: Yitz, I am surprised at you. I said Jewish and Beth Shalom is a Conservative Congregation. We don't pay any attention to them.

Yitz: Rabbi. Beth Shalom isn't just any Conservative synagouge. It has knowledgeable members who send their children to day school. Many are actually Shomer Shabbos.

Elie: And I have pretty good relationships with Beth Shalom memebrs.

Rabbi: Guys. Get hold of youselves. Beth Shalom is Conservative. We don't recognize them. No ifs ands or buts.

Elie: What do we do about the illegal synagogue on the South side of town? How are we going to push that one through now?

Rabbi: We still control the boards of this town and they all know that Teaneck will never reject a synagogue proposal even if pursued through illegal means.

Yitz: Toffler is smart though. She will figure out that the law actually does not support what's going on over there.

Rabbi: Guys don't worry about that one.

Yitz: What about the eruv lie? How are we going to make people believe us that there is a threat it will come down if Toffler and gang actually don't pursue that?

Rabbi: We can make up another lie. Let's just say they won't allow the creation of a second mikvah in town.

Elie: That's actually something that is needed but no one seems to want to fund it.

Rabbi: Good we can blame the delays on Toffler. She's Conservative. She doesn't care about mikvas.

Elie: Susan over JV&O says we also have to make them believe there won't be anymore kosher restaurants in town.

Yitz: Don't we have enough of those.

Rabbi: Susan is a genuis. People have believed her stupidity for years. Just listen to what she says.

Elie: I feel a lot better rabbi. Thanks. I think we have a plan.

Yitz: I can even write a letter telling people that we have Toffler contained.

Anonymous said...

Mohammed absolutely will stick with Team Teaneck. You can bank on it.

Swiggle said...

BTW, the Bay of Pigs was concocted under Eisenhower and executed 3 months into his administration.

While I always appreciate the history, I wasn't speaking to the event as much as I was to the underlying old school vs. new concept of your prior post. Don't malign Mr. Nixon. He had a great record on foreign policy.

Anonymous said...

Do Conservative congregations accept the intermarried?

Zev Mo said...

you are assuming that Mohammad will vote for them. No one is assuming that where I am.

I trust that Council-member-elect Hameeduddin will use his intellect and good judgement for the betterment of Teaneck.

What else do you want?

joey said...

"bank on it?" how do you know? the talk in the orthodox community is that Katz will be out as Mayor. If mohammad will vote for him, he should stay, no?

anonymous said...

well, zev, if you trust him to do what's in our interests, then we can all sleep well tonight. what a pompous little buffoon you are!

Dave said...

Read these excerpts about what has happened in lawrence, long Island and tell me this isn't the Teaneck of 2009.
This is from the New York Times, circa 2006: While not yet a majority, the Orthodox have nonetheless emerged as the dominant force in a clash of cultures. And the front line in this battle is Lawrence's once highly regarded public school system.
In each of the last four years, Orthodox voters mobilized to defeat the school budget -- one of the longest losing streaks on Long Island. Then in July, they took charge of the school board, though few of the Orthodox send their children to public schools. Out of seven seats, the new majority consists of four Orthodox members and one ally.
“It’s not a public school board,” said Asher Mansdorf, the board president. “By law, it’s a school board that controls all educational monies in the area.” By law, private school students receive busing, textbooks, special education services and nurses from public school funds. Fields and buildings, if available, may be used by private school students after hours.
''Other communities are watching Lawrence very closely, for fear they may be next,'' said Prof. William B. Helmreich, the director of the Center for Jewish Studies at Queens College. Orthodox adherents ''are cohesive, they marshal forces and vote as a bloc,'' he said. ''It could happen anywhere.''
Distrust has spread, and each side has accused the other of bad faith and bigotry.
''It's ominous,'' said Steven Sanders, a former New York City assemblyman who was chairman of the State Assembly's Education Committee. ''This is not going to be an isolated situation. This is a worrisome trend. The common thread is not religion. The common thread is people who don't feel invested in educating other people's children. What do you do when a community is significantly comprised of individuals who don't have a stake in public schools when they're already spending for private schools? It's a fracturing of the social compact.''
Dennis Brown, a real estate broker and former school board member, said: ''I don't think Lawrence or the Five Towns is a community anymore. It's different communities, everyone turning against everyone else.''

That's two years ago in Lawrence, and it may very well be NEXT year in Teaneck.

anonymous said...

wow, dave, this is unbelievable! I had no idea. You are quite right, we are heading in the same direction.

Anonymous said...

Why should Katz be out as Mayor? He got 4600 votes when he ran. He is highly regarded for his achievements for teaneck.

Anonymous said...

Dave: Teaneck is nothing like Lawrence. Teaneck is Modern Orthodox, which means it is engaged in society and respectful of others. I get the point Harold is making that the leaders are failing their constituents in leading a Modern Orthodox community. But the silent majority in Teaneck is still devoted to engaging with others.

Anonymous said...

The Lawrence crap is Toffler language. She put it that way to the Times. Teaneck is in no way like Lawrence, as anyone who knows what's what knows.

How many candidates were there in last month's school election in teaneck?

Zev Mo said...

what a pompous little buffoon you are!
Mr. Anonymous, 9:33. (i.e. Mr. tough-guy)

While it is very convenient of you to call people names from the comfort of anonymity, I think that your comments show how contemptuous and full of vitriol you are. You malign people without the very concept of truth or fact. I would stick to points rather than name calling.

Dave said...

It's all nice and fuzzy to say the "modern orthodox" engage with others, etc. But when it comes down to it, these folks are paying like $15,000 a year PER KID in private school tuition, times 3 or 4 kids. The economy stinks. The money is tight. People will look out for their own wallets, even if in a perfect situation, they'd do otherwise.

Harold said...

I get it. Every time there will be something remotely problematic for the Orthodox community, it will be called "Toffler crap." Elie, Yitz and Rabbi P. have done their job.

Dave said...

There were just 3 candidates for 3 seats in last month's school board election. But Team Teaneck has two guys available for next year's race.

Zev Mo said...

@Anon

Why are you creating boogie-men where they do not exist? Why are you so afraid of Council-member-elect Hameeduddin?

Anonymous said...

Why would there be Team Teaneck candidates for school board? No one seems to want to tackle an April election. Is that costly election going to be moved to November?

Anonymous said...

Harold -- sad but true.

Anonymous said...

Should it be called Powers crap?

anonymous said...

I am full of "vitriol" today (true enough) because I have been suckered. I was told by our revered leaders to vote for TT and, like a dolt, I did. And now I am stuck with Mr. Hameedudin. That is a "fact," and one I find very difficult to digest. In fact, I am sick to my stomach. As for my "contemptuousness," guilty again. But some of this contempt is directed at myself -- for buying the crap. And guess what, zev, however you want to spin it, much of the orthodox community feels the same way. But never again; at least not for me.

Anonymous said...

Harold said...
The comment about demographics is continued indication of the arrogance some in the Orthodox community exhibit. You lost. Plain and simple. You didn't just lose by a slim margin. You lost by a lot. Toffler topped the ticket (the only one to get over 3000 votes) and she was supposed to be anti-Orhtodox. Honis came in second and she was branded an anti-Semite and the only member of your supposed team who won is Muslim. I am not passing judgment on any of this. Just pointing out that today is not the time to be arrogant. It is to be reflective and wonder maybe we are not the only people in this town. Maybe we should be working with others.

ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO

Arrogant?
the only one arrogant here is you, cramer, for projecting all sorts of ridiculous views on your orthodox neighbors. I dont know anyone in the orth community who is upset over Hammy.

As far as getting over goes, this is just too funny. When did u morons get over the last election? As far as I remember, you tried to contest it under all sorts of juvenile arguments for over a year!

POT KETTLE BLACK

Anonymous said...

cmon, everyone here knows that "harold" is martin kramer, or one of his whiny partners in crime.

He's bitter even after two of his hacks got elected!

Dave said...

Maybe you haven't been to Lawrence lately, but while it may swing a bit more to the right than Teaneck, it still has a modern orthodox community together with a more "black hat" orthodox community (I wish there were better adjectives than these).
It's only a matter of time until Teaneck does what Lawrence has done.
Truth be told, I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.
The Beth Aaron synagogue uses the Teaneck High School auditorium for high holiday services already. Maybe that will become a weekly thing!

Anonymous said...

"dave" seems incredibly angry at the orthodox community. Maybe he should go back home and kick his dog. Dave, are you representative of the secular Jewish community? I sure hope not. You ssound like a member of the KKK. Why dont you move to a community more to your liking, like Beirut?

Anonymous said...

Cramer has been attacking the Orthodox community since 1976...Look it up in the Bergen record.

Do you think Cramer and Schwartz are done sore losing about the last election?

Gotta hand it to Toffler, huh Schwartz? Unlike you, who ran 600 votes behind Parker in the northeast, she got all the votes there by promising a three million dollar revaluation since the one done last year was "biased". That wasn't a divisive lie, huh? And if she ever got that reval, she could really sock it to the saps who care about taxes by forcing them to pay for such a useless project.

anonymous said...

Oh, beautiful. Now it's KKK. What idiot. I am very much a member of the Orthodox Jewish community and I agree with Dave wholeheartedly. And I have no intention of moving to Beirut.

Dave said...

I AM a member of the orthodox community, just not part of the elite West Englewood faux-orthodox community, which I despise, want no part of and can't stand.

Anonymous said...

Good thing there is still a majority to block Toffler's revaluation!

Harold said...

Scene II (Rabbi P's bedroom in the middle of the night. Rabbi P. wakes up after a horrible dream that Cramer has become the Don Corleone of Teaneck instead of the Rabbi. He reaches for his phone to call Elie and hits speed dial for Elie's number).

Rabbi: Elie are you up?

Elie: It's 3 a.m. I had a few too many egg rolls but I actually finally got some sleep. Having a difficult time reading the blogs.

Rabbi: Don't read that garbage. Who cares what the little people think. And anyway they move from topic to topic so quickly, nobody will remember what was said an hour later.

Elie: Good point, Rabbi. So what's up.

Rabbi: We need to demonize Cramer a bit more.

Elie: I thought the focus was on Toffler.

Rabbi: No. Toffler's a witch but Cramer is actually very dangerous. He's been around town a long time and he knows that the Orthodox community has actually been treated pretty well here.

Elie: And so?

Rabbi: We can't let him remind people of how good they have had it here.

Elie: What do you mean, Rabbi?

Rabbbi: Elie, in the past we could argue that there were First Amendment problems with building shuls. But now we have so many shuls and nobody has their First Amendment rights substantially burdened if a new shul is not created. My lawyer was explaining this to me the other day.

Elie: I don't get it.

Rabbi: What are you Rudolph. It's not that complicated.

Elie: Please explain it again.

Rabbi: The law protects freedom of religion. It does not protect freedom to pray in the most convenient way you would like. We know have about 15 shuls in town. It's going to be a lot more difficult to say we are having our First Amendment rights violated. Cramer is a lawyer. He understands this stuff.


Elie: Yeah, the township lawyer was explaining something like that to me.

Rabbi: Also, people hate Cramer because he pursued you like a hawk after the last election.

Elie: He sure did. I was worried about that one.

Rabbi: Cramer's friends with Schwartz and no one likes that hippie.

Elie: But we are dealing with Toffler now.

Rabbi: Toffler and her annoying husband, Powers, are child's play compared to Cramer and Schwartz. Listen to me. Demonize Cramer.

Anonymous said...

West Englewood Jews are Foxy??? Yeah, you make sense!!! Hah, Hah.

anonymous said...

no you moron -- faux-orthodox does not mean foxy orthodox; it means false orthodox. talk about education!

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